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2005.12.07

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"That so-called Christian activists are making a big deal out of the commercial trappings of the Christmas season not being sufficiently religious is freaking me out a little."

I don't get that either -- they've got the lock on the religious component of the holiday. Why get worked up about what Wal-Mart's doing, when they know what the day means to them?

I think the Bible quote in the President's card made his position on Christianity pretty clear, myself.

Strange. You would think christian activists would be more upset about churches not having services on Christmas because it is a Sunday (??).

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1378738

It always seems to me that a lot of the people denouncing the de-Christmasizing of the holiday season are simply opposed to multiculturalism/religious pluralism, and the market commoditization of their beliefs doesn't irk them nearly so much...if at all. I have to say, I suspect a lot of them of either not caring about that in the slightest or being just fine with it. Of course, I realize there are many sincere and thoughtful Christians who do have a problem with it...but you'd have to convince me they're the majority. We usually hear the most from the fundamentalist windbags, and other voices get lost in the shouting and sputtering.

I got irked about this this nonsense last year; looks like it's going to go on the list of annual annoyances.

I think you hit this one right out of the damn park. And one of the reasons I see no one stepping up on the commercialization issue is the only people getting het up about "The War on Christmas" are the ones caught up in an obessive (and surreal) martyrdom complex when people don't bow and scrape before their particular version of Christianity.

Interesting. I haven't really seen this particular slant to the issue before.

I tend to agree with the "activists" as far as the naming of the holiday goes, though I come at it from a different angle than they. It's Christmas, plain and simple. It's a public holiday, not just in the US but in many other countries as well, and as such is a secular celebration that happens to be known by the name "Christmas." So let's call it that. No one is served by wishing each other a "Happy Non-Denominational Winter Solstice Celebration."

Though I have no problem with people attaching religious significance to the holiday - as long as they don't force such on everyone - I can argue with the "Keep Christ in Christmas" statements. "Christ" wasn't even originally in Christmas. As Lisa ably points out, the whole Christian angle was meant to steal the thunder from pre-existing "pagan" winter solstice celebrations, primarily Saturnalia in Rome and similar Celtic festivals in Europe.

At the same time however, we seem to be forgetting Chanukkah, Kwanzaa, true solstice celebrations, and other holidays that happen around the same time. Calling Christmas Christmas is all well and good, but if we're going to be civilized and inclusive, we need to remember that others celebrate differently. The existance of all of these different holidays is ample reason to celebrate diversity, not to neuter them all into some generic "winter celebration."

I agree very much with Roger. We should be celebrating all of these diverse events, not pretending they don't exist. Though I can see the point about separating the religious festival from the commercial excess, surely we don't mean all celebration and decoration is commercialism and the religious bit just means solemn religious observances.

The other problem that a lot of people have with "Winterval" and other such delicately non-religious terms, at least here in the UK, is that they are often imposed "to avoid offending people of different religions" without actually having any discussion or consultaiton with those people. Inclusivity and avoidance of offence are good things, but patronising people by assuming they will be offended, without giving them a say in the matter, is not such a good thing.

Here in Britain there are regularly occasions where some well-meaning and populist council decides to ban all reference to Christmas during the holiday season because it's "offensive to other religions", while Muslim, Hindu and other community leaders comment bemusedly "They never asked us, and we wouldn't have been offended".

>>Frankly, there's a huge difference between celebrating Christmas in a secular capacity as a holiday centered on fellowship and generosity, and celebrating it as the birth of Christ. Buying your gifts at a store that uses "Christmas" as a marketing tool doesn't make you a good Christian, any more than buying a Buddha makes you a good Buddhist. It really bugs me that nobody who's willing to speak on this issue has said that yet.>>

Good point. There's also the question of whether "Happy Holidays" is comfortable only for businesses wanting to speak to people with a bunch of different cultural/religious backgrounds. My family is a bunch of atheists. We have a tree, but I'd say we definitely celebrate a "holiday," rather than the birth of Christ, and we all say "holiday season," "winter break," and "Happy holidays," to each other.

With all the problems going on in the world, what is the big deal about Christmas? I'm half tempted just to call it Xmas or Saturnalia just to make these fools look even more foolish. It's a time to celebrate, just leave it at that.

Talk about not knowing the true meaning of the season.

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