A few quotes I found interesting

The goal is to mobilize evangelical Christians for political action to return society to what they call "the biblical worldview of the Founding Fathers." Some speak of "restoring a Christian nation."

from "For Evangelicals, a Bid to 'Reclaim America,'" CSM, March 16, 05

I'm guessing that would be the same Biblical worldview Thomas Jefferson supported with his contention that:

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

Yes, Jefferson is referring to the same Paul who authored Galatians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Roman, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus in the New Testament of the Bible.

So maybe the radical religious right is referring to the Christian nation founding father Thomas Jefferson intended, when he recounted:

[A]n amendment was proposed by inserting ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that [the preamble] should read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion’; the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

So maybe by "founding fathers," the folks attending the Coral Ridge conference last month mean "all the founding fathers except for the one who wrote the Declaration of Independence, or agreed to that business with the preamble."

And except for the one who was president #2. John Adams' Biblical worldview was:

Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Incidentally, this is the same guy who signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which reads in part:

The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

And here's what he'd said to the idea that we were a founded as a Christian nation:

It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service [forming the U.S. government] had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

Would you like me to continue? Oh, okay. One more, just because I like you. Let's hear it for president number four, James Madison:

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

And Madison's opinion on a Christian nation?

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

In short: three of the first four presidents, all of whom signed the Constitution, expressed the idea that America was not intended to be a Christian nation, and the Bible was not a founding document.

I'm all getting all nitpicky with this because it is important to be able to counter the historically incorrect argument that we were founded as a Christian nation. Several of the Founding Fathers may have been into the idea, and nearly all of them followed Christianity-based doctrine for societal conduct, what with that being the dominant moral frame of reference in their own lives, but that does not make their nation-building intentions explicitly Christian. And given the careful emphasis on a lack of religious boosterism, and a nation committed to principles derived from human reasoning, I'd be skeptical of anyone who insisted otherwise.

[EDITED: to correct JM's presidential number, as I confused him with James Monroe. Oh, Mr. Michael Bunn would be so disappointed in me for not remembering that James Monroe was No. 5, and James Madison No. 4. -- LAS]

Comments

[MargaretWV]

Here's the text of a talk rebutting the claim that George Washington was an evangelical Christian:

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/henriques/hist615/gwandreligion.htm

The rewriting of history by the Religious Right is very scary in this instance -- they just straight-out lie about old George!

[Jecca]

Did you ever know that you're my heeeero
and everything I woo-hould like to beeee?

[Erica]

And I'm off to send this to just about every single person that I know.

Awesome, amazing, what Jecca said.

[Becky]

That's brilliant.

May I ask where the Thomas Jefferson quotes are from?

[Lisa]

The second TJ quote is easy -- it's in his own autobiography. The first one I got from this site, which cites:

"The writings of Thomas Jefferson exist in 25 volumes. The references for this article were found in the book, SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS, by John E. Remsburg (who interviewed many of Lincoln's associates). Much of his work on Jefferson came from THE MEMOIRS, CORRESPONDENCE AND MISCELLANIES FROM THE PAPERS OF THOMAS JEFFERSON, 4 volumes ed. by Thomas Jefferson Randolph (the grandson of Thomas Jefferson)."

Another site that has a boatload of EXCELLENT Jefferson quotes is this one, as it's collected several letters in which Jefferson attempts to reconcile the use of reason and observation with Biblical assertions, and in which he repeatedly stresses his conviction that religion is not the same thing as faith, nor is religion a substitute for civil government. His letter to the Danbury Baptist Association lays it out pretty well:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

If it's not obvious, I adore TJ -- his voracious intellect and his diligent attempts to apply his natural inclinations toward bettering the world are things I strive, poorly, to cultivate in my own life.

[Kristin]

There's also the quote from Ben Franklin in which he doubts the divinity of Jesus. Yep, those Founding Fathers sure were religious freaks, all of 'em.

[Zen]

Thanks, Lisa. You said a bunch of things that I wish more people would take into account. And Washington wasn't that religious either. So I guess that makes it four out of four.

[Girl Detective]

Thanks for the quotes, Lisa. I didn't know that TJ felt the same way that I do about Paul. Most people also don't know that Paul probably never knew Jesus; they didn't live concurrently. A lot of people assume, incorrectly, that he was one of the 12 disciples.

[enigmaticjack]

Simply put, this was my read of the week (in spite of your confusion on the order of JMs, which as a Virginian I'm shocked to see! Mother of Presidents and all that bupkus...). Nicely assembled and I loved how you put these all together.

That said, I'm guessing that the point of actually assembling these quotes is lost on people who don't think the historical record counts for anything.